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Talk:Romulan ranks
A cut scene in the script of "The Enemy" states that Centurion is a higher rank than Lt. Cmdr. *Assuming that the Romulan ranks are based on Vulcan ranks, it appears that a Sub-Commander is equivalent to the non-existant Starfleet rank of 3.5 pips. T'Pol stated in "Broken Bow" that she outranked Cmdr. Tucker, but when she was given a Starfleet commission she wasn't promoted to Captain. --James Cody 16:57, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) ::I think T'Pol outranked Tucker because Sub-Commander is the equivalent of a commander in Starfleet, but T'Pol had more seniority. -- Steve 20:44, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) :::Her exact words were "My Vulcan rank supersedes yours." Also, if we accept the script from "The Enemy" and continue to assume that a Romulan commander is equivalent to a Starfleet Captain, then there's no equivalent Starfleet rank left for Sub-Commander, which ties in nicely with the dialogue bit from "Broken Bow". --James Cody 20:57, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) ::::Of course, Vulcan and Romulan ranks do not have to be equivalent to each other (and are likely not, since the Vulcan High Command uses Captain, and the Romulans apparently do not). Plus, doesn't T'Pol now have an Earth Starfleet commission of Commander? Wouldn't that suggest an equivalence? ::::On the other point, I think cut-scenes are kind of a grey area. Referencing the script itself is fine, so long as you're referencing, say, the spelling of a name. The only cut-scenes that have really been used have been the alternate ending from since that were actually filmed (and can be seen on the DVD) instead of cut at the draft stage. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 21:50, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) :::::No, it doesn't necessarily suggest an equivalence. If there is no equivalent Starfleet rank to Sub-Commander, then Starfleet had to choose between promoting T'Pol either to Commander or Captain. --James Cody 22:00, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) T'Pol would out rank anyone but the captain because she is second in command. She could be a Lt. like the 'Number One' from the and still out rank a crew member of Lt. Commander. This would rarely occur because usually the highest ranking officer (besides the captain) would be First Officer. --TOSrules 21:09, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) ::She wasn't second in command at that point if I recall correctly. Merely an observer. --James Cody 21:15, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) :::I wouldn't know I am not a fan of Enterprise--TOSrules 21:23, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) ::Yeah, that argument was essentially when she became second-in-command. Because evidently, Archer didn't think it worth the bother to establish who his first officer was. -- Steve 21:17, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) :The whole argument confuses me, but it strikes me as defying logic that a Vulcan sub-commander would outrank a Vulcan commander. And if there's one thing that Vulcans are big on, its logic. --Malimar 19:05, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) Uhlan Uhlan is listed as equivalent to an Ensign, but I've wondered if it's suppose to be Lieutenant. In STII Spock said "Wok re a wrek ban utlam" (What surprises you Lieutenant). Although I suspect "Utlam" means (surprises) and not Lieutenant because the first part "Ut" also means (or) in Vulcan; I suspect the writers got the name from STII.--TOSrules 21:23, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) :It could also be an enlisted rate. Actually, it was mentioned as being an Romulan Guard rank and might not even fall in the naval rank structure.--James Cody 21:30, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) :I don't think the two words are equivalent. They're certainly pronounced differently (and, of course, the snippet above was designed to dub over the actor's lines and match the mouth movements, and could be transcribed in various ways, I would imagine). Uhlan as used in suggests the lowest rank in the structure, though, as James says, it does reference the Romulan Guard, so may be separate. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 21:50, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) I know the genesis of the Vulcan in ST2, they sound generally alike. As if 2000 years of language has mangled the word. It is not proof by any means, especially since I point out that it is more likely another word, but I think it's a worth note for the page. uhlan does sound like Utlam, including the syllabic divide at Ut (uh) and lam (lan). The Romulan Navy? Captain there is a sailing ship firing all cannons off our starboard bow. TOS states they are a combined force, we can't even take a stab if the Romulans even have a Navel concept. Also we should not guess if there are different rank structures for diffrent branches of the military on Romulus. --TOSrules 22:00, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) ::With "naval" I simply meant the rank structure used by Romulan fleet personnel. And we do know that the Tal Shiar uses a different rank structure. Maybe uhlan isn't even meant to be a Romulan word but a reference to the Polish cavalry soldiers.--James Cody 22:07, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) :Uhlan is not a Romulan or Vulcan term though -- its Human -- a non-commissioned rank (not an officer rank equivalent to ensign at all) used in ancient Europe (probably chosen for a reference because of its proximity to the Roman Empire). It was traditionally given to shield or spear bearers, I believe. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 22:09, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) ::Well then, I guess that settles it, nice research Captain Mike --TOSrules 22:19, Dec 15, 2004 (CET) :::If I'm not mistaken, uhlan is not a rank at all. It was some sort of light cavalry regiment armed with lances. Manfred von Richthofen (aka Red Baron) for example was a lieutenant in an Uhlan Cavalry Regiment.--James Cody 22:28, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) Sub-Commander/Major Did we ever see a Sub-Commander wearing the same rank insignia as Major Rakal wore? Rakal wore one crescent and a triangle, Sub-Cmdr. N'Vek one crescent, and Sub-Cmdr. T'Rul just a triangle IIRC. --James Cody 22:55, 15 Dec 2004 (CET) Lieutenant? If there's a rank called sub-lieutenant, shouldn't there logically also be a lieutenant rank? -- Harry 13:11, 22 Dec 2004 (CET) :Is this reference appropriate given the canon policy of this site? If it hasn't been seen, should it be mentioned? --Fastolfe 18:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC) Admiral Sela Wasn't Sela an Admiral in her appearance during the Kilngon civil war? Andrew 13:21, 28 May 2006 (UTC) :She was addressed as "commander" in that episode, although she did give orders to an admiral. wierd. -- Captain M.K.B. 13:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC) ::And in TNG Unification she seems to excercise considerable authority; being responsible for an invasion of Federation space doesn't seem to be the purvue of a Commander. Andrew 06:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC) :::Unfortunetly, this is something done by the writers often in Star Trek. In the Klingon Civil War, Picard was put in command of a task force of more than twenty ship, something normally done by admirals. In DS9 Sacrifice of Angels (I think that is the episode), Captain Sisko is put in command of a fleet of 600 ships to re-take Deep Space 9 from the Dominion. With that in mind, it is not at all unlikely that Commander Sela would have been assigned by someone like the Praetor to plan an invasion of Vulcan, despite her rank. --OuroborosCobra 06:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC) Romulan Guard :Uhlan is approximately equal to a Starfleet Crewman. This rank was held by Neral when he first joined the Romulan military. In 2368, as proconsul, he stated that he never liked titles since being a "lowly uhlan in the Romulan Guard." (TNG: "Unification II") It is unknown whether Uhlan is a ground forces (infantry) or fleet (navy) rank. It seems that "Romulan Guard" has been officially refered. Since the Andorian Imperial Guard has its own article, the Romulan Guard should also have one. - Philoust123 09:36, 11 June 2006 (UTC) Title of Commanding Officer? Does anyone know how one addresses the commanding officer of a Romulan ship? I know that normally (in Starfleet, Terran Navies, etc) the commanding officer is addressed as Captain regardless of actual rank. I would think that similarly, the commanding officer on a Romulan (or Vulcan) ship would then be addressed as Commander, as seen in . I noticed, however, in , the Captain/Commander of that vessel identified himself as Captain. Ctetc2007 16:01, 6 June 2009 (UTC) Comparisons I'm going to verify the comparisons in before I remove them unless someone else wants to do it. — Morder 21:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)